Thursday, December 08, 2005


ROP Watch, Churches And Bibles Torched In Pakistan

If this had happened to Qurans and Mosques, it would have been headline news weeks ago (the second article has more details) :

LAST MONTH the longstanding tensions between Christians and Muslims in the Punjab erupted yet again into violence. The small rural community of Sangla Hills witnessed the burning of churches and Bibles and the terrorising of the (mostly Catholic) Christian population. The village’s name is on everyone’s lips in Pakistan.

In itself the violence was not as bad as some other incidents in recent years, when there have been savage killings — though it was probably only a matter of chance (or providence?) that things did not get further out of hand. What has made it exceptional is not the level of brutality but the significance it has acquired at a sensitive moment in Pakistan’s history.

First, it has focused attention sharply on Pakistan’s controversial blasphemy laws. Although these were not invoked on this occasion, the incident that sparked the violence was just the kind of allegation that has regularly triggered appeals to these laws in recent years. A private quarrel — at Sangla Hills there was a dispute over gambling debts — leads to the accusation that the Christian involved has defaced or destroyed a copy of the Koran. This is enough to lead to an arrest and a long confinement awaiting trial. No case has been upheld in the courts in recent years but the fact that an accusation leads to effective imprisonment and prospect of lynching on release means that the actual legal proceedings are the least of the accused’s problems.
Below is an extract from an article when the attacks were first reported :

In yet another incident of religious intolerance, a mob of about 1500 people, torched three churches in Eastern Pakistan, spurred by reports of alleged desecration of Holy Quraan by a local Christian.

Shahbaz Bhatti, head of the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance, denied the charges and condemned the attacks.

According to Catholic Archbishop, Lawrence Saldanaha, a Sisters' Convent, St Mary's School building and a Pastor's house were destroyed besides two churches (Catholic and Presbyterian) at Sangla Hills. But a local resident Simon Sahotra said that another Protestant Church at Tariqabad (Machar Colony) was also set on fire on Saturday.

These attacks came a day after Yusuf Maseeh allegedly burnt a one-room Madrassa along with copies of the Holy Quraan, police officials were reported as saying. Police quoted some eye witnesses as saying that people who had lost money while gambling with Maseeh had leveled the allegations against him.

Parliament member Akram Gill also said a Muslim cobbler and a Muslim goldsmith lost money to Yusuf while gambling but they refused to pay the money leading to tension and rumors.

Shahbaz Bhatti denied the charges of desecration and said, "No Christian burned copies of the Quraan. No Christian even can think of doing it. We have maximum regard and respect for the Quran and Prophet Muhammad."

Bhatti accused local Muslim leaders of using mosque public-address systems to urge Muslims to attack the churches.

Catholic Church body, National Commission of Justice and Peace (NCJP) officials, they had alerted the local and district police about tension that was building up on Friday itself but their appeals were met with silence.

Observing that blasphemy laws have been a main source and tool for creating social, sectarian and inter-religious disharmony in the country, the NCJP demanded that it was Federal government's negligence that was resulting in such injustice.

(from the same article) Qadiani sentenced

A Pakistan court sentenced an Ahmadiyya (locally called Qadiani) to life imprisonment on the charge of burning the Holy Quran. Hafizabad Additional District and Sessions Judge Qaisar Nazeer Butt announced the judgment of the case, in which two other Qadianis were acquitted.


JT, What do you think the ultimate finishing point is for this 'problem'?

Is there going to be a world war in the conventional sense, a world Jihad in the violent guerilla sense, a subsumation by reproduction or none of the above?


as a disclaimer, i'll say that my belief on what will happen over the next decade or so is just a possiblity, one of many, but I'm using the example of how other countries have been Islamised in the past and also by the rhetoric that Muslim leaders in the UK use. so here's my guess.

The jihad is being waged in many stages and in many different aspects of society.

It started with "easy goals", such as making our western leaders agree that Jewish targets of Islamic "anger" (terror) are legit, using oppression as an excuse, just like it is stated in the quran. This is the first step of legitimising Islamic terror, so in future attacks against other non-muslims can also be justified (again using oppression as an excuse) without little effort or pursuation and without much fear of reprisal from the community.

That aim has been achieved.

Currently we are in the stage of having our companies and social services Islamised, whether it's banks creating Sharia banking systems, airports having islamic only prayer rooms or making new laws that stop people questioning the hatred in Islam.

This is the dhimmifying stage and will probably be at full potential within a few years.
I call this the foot in the door stage.

We will see the odd riot, or the odd suicide attack (like on 7/7), but the ummah is aware that this may only hinder their goal of an Islamic UK. For the moment anyway.

The next step will probably be along the lines of creating Muslim only towns, villages or allowing pure Sharia to be used in Islamic communities, rather than British law.
This may sound far fetched, but it has been advocated by many muslim leaders, and our refusal to comply would then make us "oppressors" of British muslims, and this is when we will see riots, suicide attacks, street murders of non-muslims (and any muslims who disagree) and we will see daily calls for chaos from British mosques.

Of course, these acts will stop when we agree to allow any demands made by the Islamofascists(which our leaders sure as hell will judging by past responses).

Of course, all the time these events are happening, Britain's "moderate" muslim leaders will all go on the news to make clear that the riots and suicide attacks are completely against islam, BUT WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY FEELS OPPRESSED. As I stated before, oppression to a Muslim is denying his right to force islam onto the non-muslims.

This is the primary aspect of Jihad, preaching islam to the infidels, and when the infidels refuses to accept it, it is considered as denying the right to Islamic freedom of spreading the religion. Thus the "right" to use violence to force Islam will kick into action.

As I said before, these are a few possibilities but they are the most likely. They may not happen in this order and they will hardly be noticed until the Islamic banner IS flying over no.10.
It will probably take at least a decade or two, and if met with enough resistance from the British public, will end up in "civil" war.

There cannot be a war in the conventional sense, as muslim countries are so militarily weak compared to western non muslim states. This is why the we see the jihad being waged from inside

"a subsumation by reproduction "

This is a key aspect. Although in a country like the UK it will be too hard to create a majority of Muslims, but it is a step in fighting the jihad from inside the enemies territory. This will be used more to create pockets of muslim only communities that will resemble anything from the "unhappy youths" in france, to the "unhappy youths" in gaza.

But as I stated before the current stage is the conversion of the British system into one that is more favourable of Islamic values (or lack of them).

I think it is still too early to predict how it will end, or to be more specific, how the begining of the end will happen.


I keep thinking that Europe will eventually defend themselves.

Generally, human nature doesn't change. Europe has been better at defending themselves, and at destroying enemies, than anyone in the world, for quite a few centuries now. Why is it that everybody thinks Europeans are truly ready to fold up and die.

I think what will happen is Europe will turn Fascist again. I believe the European people will eventually get so sick of the Islamofascists among them, that they will elect people like Le Pen who will round up all the Muslims (including native-born citizens) and throw them the hell out.

Do you really think the traditionally brutal Europeans are ready to go quietly into the night?


Well that's depressing so some counter news

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